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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
General Tso's Alliance
976
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Posted - 2014.05.31 17:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, I suggested this a while back and it seems a very good time to mention it again.
What to do with triple rep maddies?
It's VERY simple. Change how quickly they repair. Rather than repping EVERY second, change the rate to every 3 to 5 seconds. Force them to disengage for reps, not simply stand and rep through AV fire like it ain't no thing.
That or you could make it where they need to be out of combat for reps to work, but I would suggest offering a way to active rep if we went down this route.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
General Tso's Alliance
979
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Posted - 2014.06.01 17:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Glyd Path wrote:You don't seem to be tankers so let's clear up a few misconceptions. Active repairs? Never worked. If they started they would start at the end of the count down cycle, so every x seconds you got your repair. But eve get repairs and then it cycles, but dust might miss a cycle or two (not a second or two). So losing a tank because not only the repair not starting but often it would stop on its own. Or, better yet, ccp and their wonderful code will turn on one repair but turn it back off if you selected a different repair module. Yes, selected the correct module carefully and ccp would kill you anyway. Fun. Not really, just a dead tank. This was their solution. It is better than it was. At least for tankers. Personally I think that triple repairs are fun they are not the best solution. Two works very well, then adding a hardener or plate means the tank will actually survive the second hit from a prototype forge gun. Do the math, a forge gun can drop a maddy in three rounds. Not the silly militia ones, a real forge gun. Add getting hit by a advanced or better swarm followed quickly by a forge gun and triple repairs are not going to save you. Hit the triple maddy hard enough and you get 75 wp, more than once, and they have to pull back. Rinse, repeat and harvest wp. Learn the game. Play your own game. If you want to change a game, there is a legion forum now. 
You sir are confused I think. Many of us DO tank and we do it well. Active repping DID work, as maddies and their reps were kings back in the day. It took a lot of skill in those days, perhaps you were a bit lacking eh.
And **** legion, Dust 514 IS here now. Rattati has been doing a very good job shaking up Dust. Legion forums, so I can discuss a game that has yet to see light? There are changes coming to Dust 514, so legion can dig itself a nice deep hole and bury itself for all I care.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
General Tso's Alliance
981
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Posted - 2014.06.01 18:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Glyd Path wrote:You don't seem to be tankers so let's clear up a few misconceptions. Active repairs? Never worked. If they started they would start at the end of the count down cycle, so every x seconds you got your repair. But eve get repairs and then it cycles, but dust might miss a cycle or two (not a second or two). So losing a tank because not only the repair not starting but often it would stop on its own. Or, better yet, ccp and their wonderful code will turn on one repair but turn it back off if you selected a different repair module. Yes, selected the correct module carefully and ccp would kill you anyway. Fun. Not really, just a dead tank. This was their solution. It is better than it was. At least for tankers. Personally I think that triple repairs are fun they are not the best solution. Two works very well, then adding a hardener or plate means the tank will actually survive the second hit from a prototype forge gun. Do the math, a forge gun can drop a maddy in three rounds. Not the silly militia ones, a real forge gun. Add getting hit by a advanced or better swarm followed quickly by a forge gun and triple repairs are not going to save you. Hit the triple maddy hard enough and you get 75 wp, more than once, and they have to pull back. Rinse, repeat and harvest wp. Learn the game. Play your own game. If you want to change a game, there is a legion forum now. Wow, uhm, okay. So they were bugged? What's your point? Armor reps SHOULD be active. Passive works on dropsuits because one armor rep is much less than shield recharge, while one complex rep has a higher rate than the shield rate of a shield HAV. Shield tanks are supposed to be much better passive tankers than armor tanks (a passive armor tank should only rely on EHP with 0 rep rate, like in EVE, which would require a logistics to be effective for prolonged/large engagements). You're also wrong about the modules in EVE. Shield boosters provide hp at the start of each cycle, while armor reps provide hp at the end of each cycle. Passive reps make it too easy. "Just pull out when your armor can't regenerate fast enough." Before 1.7, you had to know when to activate your reps and how to go about while they were on cooldown. An armor tank with reps on cooldown was a dead tank. Armor tanks already had "waves of opportunity" before CCP even introduced the concept. Ironically, they completely removed that for armor tanks with 1.7 and the nerfing of hardeners.
Which is why I suggested allowing passive reps to only work when out of combat, if we were to bring back active reps. Just take a moment and imagine what this would be like.
Tank A using active reps, while tank B uses passive reps.
Tank A can mitigate damage while actively in combat, but long cooldowns and relatively short uptimes means this tanker is very vulnerable as it waits for cooldowns to come back up so that it can safely engage. That said, the reps would be very strong, very much worth the cooldowns associated with them. This type of tanker would be a bit lighter on the HP, because of the costs associated with the rep, and sacrifices that need to be made to make the most of them.
Given the maddie already has a very good base tank, I think this is totally doable. They would be somewhat of a glass cannon (I'm using glass cannon very loosely here) in comparison to their counterpart, the passive repper.
Tank B can't actively mitigate damage IN battle. So naturally, they would be able to more easily fit higher HP or resistances, as they will be focused on taking a load of damage, and mitigating it after or by breaking the engagement to do so. More reps mean faster healing rates between battles. High alpha, or a lot of sustained fire would be a weakness to this type, but they would be a beast to take down none the less.
So this type would be tanky er (making words up), as they can't simply rep through enemy fire like their active counterpart. But through a combination of driving skill, and situational awareness, they could become a very deadly force, just like the active repper.
But for now, a change to how often they rep might be the easiest solution in the short term.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
General Tso's Alliance
982
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Posted - 2014.06.01 18:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote:all i know is. I lost like 3 gunnlogis in one match on my tanker alt a while back.
i'm not anywhere near an experienced tanker and i learned that it's gonna take a lot more than 3 shield hardeners, a proto rail, and having the skill spent to be perma hardened.
though i heard it's effective with a missile turret
Well, if they ever get around to nerfing damage mods, and maybe slashing turret damage across the board, triple hardeners would be more effective.
As it stands now, my double damage modded gunnlogi with a particle cannon will 3 shot that fit. But the triple hardeners are VERY effective against tanks running lesser turrets, like the STD and a little of the ADV. Not to mention it's effectiveness against enemy AV.
I liked to run that fit by cycling at least one on when near engagement zones, and turning the other 2 on as soon as I take heavy fire, breaking LOS when needed to quickly rep shield back up so my hardeners have something to protect.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
General Tso's Alliance
982
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Posted - 2014.06.01 18:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:+1s for everyone. Pilots with sense in this thread.
most pilots have sense. the ones that don't are usually wannabes
This is VERY true.
I'll get around to posting on your thread before long as well Godin.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
General Tso's Alliance
987
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Posted - 2014.06.06 17:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:My problem is that they do a better job of passive reps than a shield tank, which should be the passive repper.vehicle shields should constantly rep, and only stop telling if the shield breaks completely. As it stands, armor has more health, can rep higher, and cannothave their reps interrupted. They hold all the advantages. better idea.. give tanks ACTIVE reps aswell as their passive ones... BUT give shield tankers some "passive" reps too HP/s version which work while in combat not while disengaged.
Shield tanks used to have rechargers, that decreased the the delay, or increased the recharge amount. Something like that at least. Really, I feel the shield recharge is good on the gunnlogi, but it certainly doesn't compare to the armor reps.
What would really be nice is if the shield booster WORKED UNDER FIRE. Though I would rather see it increase shields over time rather than all at once as well. If they were to fix it to work while under fire, I can imagine it being rather OP as it can rep through any burst fire and dish it out in kind.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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